Prohibition of Cross-Carpeting, Most Undemocratic – Manzo

by: Stanley Yakubu

Senator Anthony George Manzo (PDP, Taraba North) is the vice chairman, Senate Committee on Information, and is unarguably one of the few respected voices in the upper chamber, whose opinions are often sought by its leadership in taking decisions on crucial national issues. In this interview with STANLEY YAKUBU, the senator disagrees with those criticizing President Umaru Musa Yar’Adua for welcoming into the PDP, some state governors who deserted their hitherto political parties, saying there is no constitutional provision that is opposed to that. He also talks about his experience as a former Nigeria’s Ambassador to Israel.

President Yar’Adua recently submitted six bills to the National Assembly, one of which is seeking to prohibit cross carpeting, yet, he has been busy receiving defecting governors into your party, the PDP. How do we reconcile this?

I don’t criticize cross-carpeting .and that is my view, and I think, if the governor of Imo wants to join the PDP he is an adult. For God’s sake, are we going to say no to that?. So also the governors of Bauchi and Zamfara, they are all Nigerians, they made up their minds on what they wanted and they are backed by the constitution to do so. They have the freedom to express their opinions in private or in group as to which association they want to belong to, our constitution gives that freedom. They feel that they don’t want to belong to PPA or ANPP any longer and they want to come to PDP, we can’t say no. We have a very large umbrella that can contain them all and accommodate all Nigerians. It is not entirely impossible to find a situation where all the parties will decide to come into the PDP; and some people are arguing that we are advocating for a one party state. The important thing at the end of the day, is to let the people make a determination and when they do that by casting their votes, let those votes count. Whether it is in the context of PDP or any other party.

Are you now saying that, the National Assembly may not pass the bill seeking to prohibit cross-carpeting?

My own personal view is that, why should anyone seek to prohibit cross carpeting? Because even in the US recently, a Senator cross-carpeted from the Republican Party to the Democratic. Why should you say that he should lose his seat? Because you are elected for a period of time, does it matter whether the people you are representing are Republicans or Democrats? I am a PDP Senator, would I say that when I go back to my constituency, I will only relate or work for PDP members? No, it is not the case, because I am a Senator representing every man, woman and child in that constituency. The doctrine of prohibiting cross-carpeting is very undemocratic and unconstitutional.

You were Nigeria’s ambassador to Israel during the administration of former President Olusegun Obasanjo. How would you juxtapose your experience as a diplomat then and now that you are in the Senate?

The difference basically is that, as an ambassador you are heading a mission and you are appointed at the pleasure of the President as his principal envoy to a country. So, you help in implementing the foreign policy objectives as set out by the President. In the Senate now obviously you are involved in the business of making laws. Interestingly, one of the functions of the Senate or the National Assembly is to ratify all treaties. So, whatever arrangements you make as an Ambassador in the foreign mission by way of treaties and so on, they have to be ratified by an act of the National Assembly. I think in this regards, one reinforces the other. But the work of an Ambassador basically is an executive work. But in my case, my experience in Israel has helped me in this Senate, because, although Israel runs a different system of government, they run something more of a parliamentary system like the French. They have a president and a Prime minister as a head of government. While ours is a presidential democracy with separation of powers. But what I found is that, democracy in a state that is already established, is very different from democracy in a state like our own, where many of the institutions are in their infancy stage. This is because, what is going to make a democracy work is the strength of the institutions; whether they are judicial institutions or executive institutions, this is what makes the difference and not the strength of the people in positions. The Senators and President will come and go, but the institutions of the country will remain. And this is where I think we miss the point. If we do not dwell on building institutions that will outlast us as individuals, then there lies our problem. Israel as a country, has established institutions that can withstand all sorts of crises, and this is what we need to do as a country. Aside, of course, the fact is that they are in a different economic circle, they are far more advanced in terms of technology, military warfare, security institutions and even agriculture than us.

Emerging from colonial rule, Africa became the centre-piece of Nigeria’s foreign policy which was sustained by many regimes; with this in mind, Professor Ibrahim Gambari propounded the Concentric Circle Foreign Policy Theory for Nigeria, Professor Akinyemi came up with Medium of Concept Powers Theory, where he emphasized that, Nigeria should rather seek friendly relations with its equals or those countries of the world hitherto considered as its peers. And today, the incumbent minister of foreign affairs Ojo Maduekwe is advocating a Citizen diplomacy. What do you think is the striking difference among these postulations and which one is the best for us as a nation?

There is no difference at all, they are just saying the same thing but in different forms. Don’t forget that, as a foreign minister or as a government, the foreign policy objective is defined by section 19 of the 1999 constitution. And in effect, what these people are saying is that, whatever foreign policy we pursue has to be to the benefit of the Nigerian people. Whether the Nigerian is the centre of Gambari’s concentric circle and as a matter of fact that circle was greatly espoused very strongly by Ambassador Olu Adeniji, who is also one of the revered foreign ministers we have had in this country. Also, don’t forget Ike Nwachukwu’s Economic Diplomacy Theory, which in effect, is also an extrapolation of what is in section 19 of the constitution. If you take for instance, the Citizen Diplomacy that is now being espoused by Ojo Maduakwe, it is the same, because, at the end of the day, we want to make sure that whatever grammar we are blowing in all international seminars and workshops, the question is, how does it benefit the Nigerian, how do you add value to Nigerians? But in my own opinion, the citizen diplomacy theory does not even have a blue print. For instance, all we can talk of now, are the speeches of the foreign affairs minister. I don’t think it has been well articulated to a point that you can now go to a Nigerian embassy in any country and find that this is the ‘Bible’ of our foreign policy upon which it would be operated. This is what our foreign policy is about. But the consolation of all these things is that, we are trying to give effect to section 19 of the constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria which makes Africa the centre piece of Nigeria’s foreign policy, so much so that we concentrate first and foremost, on the Nigerian, and once this is sorted out, we can go to ECOWAS, AU and then to the UN. But the world cannot be compartmentalized now into Africa or Asia. There are now different forces affecting us since we have become a global village, where you find that a small country in West Africa will have meaningful relationship with a big country in Asia. So there is now a clear pattern; countries are now looking out for the realization of their own interests. In this case, we can see that Ghana for instance, is going all out to woo the Americans with the recent visit of President Obama to that country. I can tell you that no one can cage Ghana into the concept of regional policy as it is now. The summary of all these is that, every foreign minister comes with his own phrase and all the things you mentioned. We also have the Road Side Diplomacy espoused by ambassador Sule Lamido now governor of Jigawa state. But all these are all aimed at making sure that Nigeria and its nationals gets the best.

There is this media hype that because Obama had recently snubbed Nigeria by refusing to visit her but preferred Ghana, perhaps this is why he has dispatched Mrs. Hilary Clinton to come, in what appears to be an attempt to right the wrong done by him.